Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    A Biden presidency isn't moderately safe. Internationally, we're supporting a genocide and a dozen other horrible things. Domestically, there has been no notable federal action on women's right and LGBT rights, less than nothing is being done to address our increasingly (under Biden) overfunded and overmilitarized police, Biden put down an imminent strike, we're going backwards on the environment, and a dozen other horrible things. Jesus Christ, Dems are talking about violating international law and denying asylum requests at the southern border, in addition to doing nothing about nutjobs like Greg Abbot trying to close the border unilaterally.

    You have to let go of the idea that "oh we can't risk Republicans getting power," because Dems are doing so much of what Republicans said they'd do just a few years ago. Democrats are a speed bump at best; the ride is unsafe whether that speed bump is there or not.

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  • main
    main 4mo ago
    Jump
    Okay, so he's literally Sundowning
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Minimally competent handlers would have scheduled some state visit to a vastly different time zone right before. Have him spend a week in a place where local 1 PM is 9 PM eastern time, then ship him back while his brain still works.

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    she felt there was no suitable candidates to take over

    Yes, a ridiculous and indefensible position. Imagine the ego to think no one else in the country can do your job (where much of the legwork is done by your clerks, anyway). You really don't have to hand it to her, even a little.

    I have noticed that parties that are to the left of the other parties

    I don't see how this is responsive to the point that Democrats should have sat down with Ginsburg and tried to convince her to retire. There's no excuse for them not only not doing that, but doing the exact opposite.

    the question is how to get there from here

    Sure, and the answer starts with coming to terms with the fact that the Democratic Party needs to be replaced, or at least changed so radically that it's unrecognizable. It deserves no loyalty and gets no benefit of the doubt.

    Anything short of that approach winds up in the same "oh but they're the lesser evil" excuse, which isn't even true (genocide is not lesser evil), and just leads to the rightward rachet effect we've seen for the last ~50 years.

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    she was being obstinate for precisely the reason you outline, there was no suitable candidates to take over

    Come on, you don't believe this. You're saying there were zero suitable Supreme Court candidates available between Kagan and Jackson? Not retiring was an indefensible decision, simple as that.

    You're right that Democrats had failed to address the narrow issue of "what happens if a walking corpse is on the Supreme Court?" before it was too late. But don't they have any politicians in their ranks? You know, the kind that can talk to a fellow Democrat and get them to agree to an obviously good idea? Do you think Obama even tried? What's the media's excuse for not running the stories they're running right now against Biden?

    it's the sort of problem that can only be addressed by enough people standing up and making their voices heard saying that it needs to be addressed

    This is always good, but there are functional parties in other countries. Parties that show some political leadership and don't have to be browbeaten by a bunch of people risking imprisonment and police beatings to do anything decent.

    What you are saying sounds a lot like "Democrats can't fail, they can only be failed."

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Democrats need to lose this election. There has to be an electoral consequence for openly supporting an active genocide. No, this doesn't mean supporting Trump -- his genocidal rhetoric should get the lowest amount of support possible.

    I'm probably going to vote for some non-genocidal presidential candidate with no chance at winning, then vote for Democratic congresspeople. If enough people do this the message will be "the votes are here, but not if you're going to do all the things you say we should be terrified of Trump doing anyway." Democrats holding at least one house of Congress will also (minimally) impede Republicans and prevent idiot lib pundits from writing "maybe everybody just wants fascism?" articles.

    Hopefully this will open space for a significantly more left candidate in 2028, the way Hillary eating shit in 2016 opened space for Bernie to be the plurality favorite in 2020. Between that and libs finally taking the bad stuff Biden is doing seriously once Trump is in office, maybe we'll shift a few things in a slightly better direction.

    And that's just the electoral piece. Beyond that, working on genuine harm reduction projects, trying to unionize your workplace, joining political organizations left of the Democratic Party, and trying to persuade people that Democrats are a dead end are all good things to do.

    This isn't a complete plan for getting to bare minimum improvements on issues like climate change, healthcare, imperialism, etc. (and note how that standard is never applied to Democrats), but my thinking is it can open up avenues to those improvements that aren't currently available.

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Unless I'm missing something though, neither the president nor congress can force a judge to retire, short of impeaching them.

    What does it say about a party if it can't get members on their deathbeds out of positions of power? What does it say about a party if members on their deathbeds don't do this on their own?

    A competent party should be preparing younger members to take the reigns, cultivating the mentality that members shouldn't cling to power until they keel over, and should remove members who stick around too long. It should shape the rules of the institutions of government to do this as well.

    Democrats never did this, and haven't come close to taking these questions seriously for decades.

    13
  • It's her turn (again)
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    ...I think we're talking about different things. I said we can bring people to the left of the Democratic Party. I think you read that as bringing the left in to the Democratic Party.

    I wasn't suggesting entryism, I was suggesting we can get people to realize the Democratic Party is never going to provide any real improvements.

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Right now the choice is Biden or Trump for the next term. It sucks, but that is what it is.

    This thinking has locked us in a rightward spiral for the last half century.

    That’s the real issue this time,” he said. “Beating Nixon. It’s hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.”

    The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. “How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame but ‘regrettably necessary’ holding actions? And how many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?”

    I trust you know the definition of insanity.

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Say you're right, and there is no difference between going to jail in 2024 and being enslaved on a plantation in 1824 (what "slavery" means to people in the U.S.). Simply saying that does not work.

    Our comrades must understand that ideological remolding involves long-term, patient and painstaking work, and they must not attempt to change people's ideology, which has been shaped over decades of life, by giving a few lectures or by holding a few meetings. Persuasion, not compulsion, is the only way to convince them. Compulsion will never result in convincing them. To try to convince them by force simply won't work. This kind of method is permissible in dealing with the enemy, but absolutely impermissible in dealing with comrades or friends.

    Here, we aren't even trying "a few lectures or meetings" and then giving up on people, we're shouting a hot take at them and then telling them to fuck off (or worse) if they don't immediately abandon their long-held beliefs. What is the point of reading all this leftist theory if we just ignore it?

    But yes, I think there are some significant differences between modern incarceration and the U.S. conception of slavery (antebellum south chattel slavery). That doesn't mean prison conditions are fine, or that it's OK to coerce prisoners into virtually unpaid labor, or anything like that.

    1
  • It's her turn (again)
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    This is just defeatist.

    Fifteen years ago there was no significant organization left of the Democratic Party. The growth in leftist numbers and organization since then has been enormous. Why are we suddenly at the point where there can be no further movement?

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  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    Sticking to the actual facts, both Republicans and Democrats are doing fucked up shit.

    You're right, and you're right that we should point that out, too.

    What I'm saying is that we should stick to the bad things Democrats actually do, not exaggerate. There is no need to exaggerate because Dems do plenty of horrible shit already, and exaggeration doesn't persuade people who don't already agree with you.

    1
  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    If this is just a space for lefties, we shouldn't get so high on our own supply that we forget how to talk to libs, or the necessity of persuading people to join us.

    If this is a lefty space that is frequently visited by non-leftists, and can be used as a way to persuade them, then we shouldn't be staking out the hottest possible take and telling people they should be shot if they disagree.

    3
  • Democrats: You have to vote for democrats to stop Trump from round up people and shipping them to concentration camps for slave labor.
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    I'm not saying anything close to that. "Democrats will piss and moan and then go right along with the worst shit Republicans do" is basically the opposite.

    Sticking to the actual facts -- Democrats are immediately going along with this horrible thing Republicans did -- does not mean pulling punches, or watering down how shitty Democrats are.

    2
  • It's her turn (again)
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    420blazeit69
    4mo ago 100%

    The "heads need to roll" point is one we can use. Any upper-level Democrat who's had access to Biden and lied about his condition should resign. They're the one saying the stakes couldn't be higher, and they lie about how inept their candidate is? And that's not even getting into the issue of having an inept day-to-day president.

    Rank-and-file Dems won't get behind "Biden is a war criminal who should be arrested and turned over to the ICC." This is the type of idea they will get behind, and it can be used to eventually bring some to of the left of the party.

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  • memes
    memes 420blazeit69 4mo ago 100%
    bottom text
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    apnews.com

    > Once OMB signs off, the DEA will take public comment on the plan to move marijuana from its current classification as a Schedule I drug, alongside heroin and LSD. It moves pot to Schedule III, alongside ketamine and some anabolic steroids, following a recommendation from the federal Health and Human Services Department. After the public comment period and a review by an administrative judge, the agency would eventually publish the final rule. A very good development for reducing mass incarceration, but: 1. Listen Fat, this is too little too late to save the 2024 election, if it'll have even gone into effect by then. 2. How fucking incompetent are Democrats that they're taking the clock down to zero on this obvious win that should have been a "first 100 days" item.

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    Got one of those "we want you to buy reddit stock because you reddited really hard!" emails... on an account I haven't used for six years. When I did use it, I used it almost exclusively on a niche subreddit, too. They're scraping the bottom of the barrel already ![che-laugh](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/cb2faca8-a44f-4e3f-acb4-b9821b1655aa.png "emoji che-laugh") This is in the dunk tank to dunk on me for once using reddit

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    www.nbcnews.com

    Today in "imagine the reporting if the countries were flipped"

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    We've all heard it: "before the Civil War most Americans viewed themselves as citizens of their state first and their country second." It gets uncritically repeated at even high levels of academia (often with respect to the revolutionary era as well). Well, it's bullshit, and regardless of the intention of the speaker it reinforces the lie that Confederates fought the Civil War over states' rights. This [r/AskHistorians post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6bksfi/in_united_states_history_at_what_point_did/) serves as an example (note how the question assumes *at any point* most Americans viewed themselves primarily as state citizens) and the top comment outlines the evidence that's usually trotted out in support of the myth: 1. Robert E. Lee *said* he really totally wanted to fight for the Union, but was *just too loyal to Virginia!* Wow, you're telling me a guy who viewed himself as a noble gentleman warrior, and who was appealing to people who viewed themselves similarly, said he was fighting for something more justifiable than chattel slavery? The institution that even southern slaveowners privately acknowledged was wrong for generations? This "evidence" (it's amazing how commonly this specific anecdote is raised, it's even the first point our reddit historian brings up!) should be given the same weight as Eichmann's defense of himself in Jerusalem, especially in light of Lee personally owning slaves. It could not more transparently be a self-serving lie. 2. People used to say "the United States *are*," not "the United States *is*"! Another incredibly common defense of this myth that collapses under even the slightest scrutiny. As another commenter on that post points out, [the available textual evidence doesn't even support this](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=the+United+States+are%2Cthe+United+States+is&year_start=1800&year_end=1900&corpus=17&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cthe%20United%20States%20are%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cthe%20United%20States%20is%3B%2Cc0) -- as far as we can tell today, by the 1860s "the United States *is*" had been the most common phrasing for 30 years. That 30-year period also happens to be the first 30 years where one could say formal American English (at least spelling and definitions) began to be standardized. Noah Webster's first *American* English dictionary was published in 1828, a decade or two before the first experiments in public education. And of course we must account for a period of "linguistic settling" (a term I just made up), that is, the period between when a need arises for a new phrase and when one possible phrasing becomes dominant/formally recognized (see: Twitter rebranding to X and there still being no dominant/formally recognized way of phrasing how to describe posting to X, to replace "tweeting" or "tweeted"). All told, at best we can draw no conclusion from how people used "United States" in the lead up to the Civil War; at worst the actual evidence points to the consensus trending towards "United States *is*" decades before the conflict. 3. Communication and transport got so much easier after the Civil War! This is a slippery one, because while mutual contact is indeed a key part of forming a national identity, focusing on railroads and telegraphs vastly undersells how much contact there was between even the pre-Revolution American Colonies. On the face of it, of course there was substantial mutual contact prior to 1776, because how else would the colonials have conceived and executed a jointly-orchestrated rebellion in the first place? A generation before the Declaration of Independence you had [the 1754 Albany Plan of Union](https://history.state.gov/milestones/1750-1775/albany-plan), a plan for "a more centralized government" adopted by representatives from seven colonies, followed shortly by the Seven Years' War (1756-1763), which cast the colonies as Britain's collective representative in North America, which contributed to a shared series of colony/metropole issues that directly influenced the eventual Revolution, and which was started in no small part due to westward colonial expansion -- a common interest of all colonies in opposition to the Crown, that the new United States would inherit as a collective interest and project after independence. One of the less-upvoted comments (of course) in the r/AskHistorians post helpfully points out that the new states ceded their westward land claims to the new nation, and that the 80 years of indigenous genocide and white settlement were a decidedly national project, enforced by the U.S. Army and managed by the U.S. federal government. I'm supposed to believe the people that spent most of a century united in cutting a bloody path across an entire continent *actually* viewed themselves as only partially invested in such an expansive national project? Extensive documentation of pre-independence (to say nothing of pre-Civil War) communication and political cooperation can be found in Gerald Horne's *The Counter-Revolution of 1776* (re: cooperating to keep down slave rebellions and kill the indigenous, commercial ties binding the entire country to the slave economy, the conscious forming of the white identity out of European castoffs in support of the above) and Benedict Anderson's *Imagined Communities* (more specific detail on what newspapers were published throughout the colonies, how frequently, and when). ____________ There's also the question of who exactly we're talking about when we speak of people forming national or state allegiances. I'd imagine enslaved people generally had low allegiance to either tier of oppressor in the antebellum South. Free black people saw discrimination at local and national levels in both the North and South, as did various groups of immigrants, although in material terms your European immigrants could obtain free real estate from the *federal* government in *federal* territories that were sometimes decades from achieving statehood, which was likely reflected in whether they viewed themselves as a national or state citizen first. Certainly plenty of people's response to "do you view yourself first as a national or state citizen?" would have been "dude I'm trying to grill here," or "uh I'm explicitly disenfranchised because I'm a woman/don't meet the wealth requirement/am not pale enough." Indigenous Americans, who were not made into U.S. citizens until well into the 20th century, would be even more dismissive of the question. In short, of the people this myth even meaningfully applies to, it's complete bullshit by the time of the Civil War. Generously speaking, it's a strained argument even around the revolutionary era, considering *the colonies declared independence, fought a war, and then formed a national government as one.* My theory is it was originally nurtured by "states' rights" losers, with a sprinkling of constitutional originalists, but draw me the Venn diagram on that one.

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    By not voting for Trump. "Not voting for one guy is a vote for the other guy" is a great time saver on election day

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    thehill.com

    > Forty-one percent of Biden supporters say they believe people who support the Republican party and its ideologies have become “so extreme in what they want that it is acceptable to use violence to stop them from achieving their goals.” Likewise, 38 percent of Trump supporters say it is OK to use violence to stop Democrats from achieving their goals... > A significant share of respondents question if democracy is no longer a viable system of governance; 31 percent of Trump supporters said America should explore alternative forms of government to ensure stability and progress, compared to 24 percent of Biden supporters.

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    I didn't listen. Some kind soul on here once told me how to download a sticker pack from hexbear so I can post ![lenin-shining](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/f0762c39-1003-4cef-8201-2298319ac6d5.png "emoji lenin-shining") to all my group chats. *And I didn't listen.* I've lost the post and can't find it, even when I look. I don't know how I'll ever figure out how to download a sticker pack again. I DIDN'T LISTEN ![lenin-rage](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/82d63ee5-dd75-42a8-ac03-0edd7178eafd.png "emoji lenin-rage")

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    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1705237824188887085

    ![zelensky-pain](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/a4a95d1e-8f27-4b57-a705-179af188357a.png "emoji zelensky-pain")

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    www.inquirer.com

    Like Confederate monuments that were built in the early 20th century, this was built in the 1990s. [Relevant reading on what else Ukranian fascists were up to at the time.](https://www.villagevoice.com/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/)

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    nypost.com

    "In America, they don't even know what this image is. They think it's art." https://images.app.goo.gl/DV37YG54eWebxKwSA

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    www.businessinsider.com

    ![joker-laden](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/fb8ee683-b161-4b70-b3ce-81bb3014f479.png "joker-laden")

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    ![national-mourning-period](https://www.hexbear.net/pictrs/image/a6f0a7f1-b9c6-408a-903d-525eb78a7922.png "national-mourning-period") Emoji unrelated

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